Minutes from the Meeting held 04/10/07

Meeting held at the Waldorf, Manchester
7:30 pm start - Chaired by Pete Nicholas
Attended by Tony Conniford (Head of Intelligence at UK Football Policing Unit); Ray Whitworth (Head of Security for the Football Association) and Elaine Greenhall (Football Supporters Federation)

Pete opened the meeting by welcoming the guests and then each guest went through what their role is in relation to the trip to Moscow.

RW - Ray heads a security team that covers the senior squad down to the under 16's and the ladies teams and are involved in all security issues relating to them. His team consists of three others - Doug, Barry and Graham, who many fans may meet at away games as the team are usually checking memberships, ticket details at the gates of stadiums. Ray was paramount in the writing the report to UEFA regarding the non-security issues that casued problems in Zagreb.

TC - This is the 4th regional forum Tony has visited in recent weeks regarding the visit to Moscow which he said indicated the interest and 'curiosity' regarding this visit. Tony is the Head of Intelligence for the UKPFU which is a unit using police officers, serious crime squad, members of the Home Office etc and focuses on all football related criminality not just hooliganism. Tony also works closely with the FA and fan groups to ensure the fans get the best treatment possible abroad and stated that this has been made easier over the years due the change in perceptions of English fans abroad and by the fans themselves.

EG - Elaine is usually the first point of contact fans have with the FSF abroad as she manages the Fans' Embassy emergency 24 hotline number. Elaine stated that as well as helping fans out in emergency situations the FSF also offer the invaluable Free Lions fanzine for all England home and away games, information regarding tickets, the stadium and the venue in general, information on accommodation, where to drink etc and if they can't offer the information, they usually have contacts that can!

Tony then went on to discuss the generalities of the visit - the basic do's and don'ts. He started by saying there is a wealth of information on both the FSF website and the FCO website. (Links for both websites are in our LINKS section).
He said that Russia is definitely a country different to any that he has visited before - unusal customs etc, but after saying that it's a country that is very pleasant and enjoyable if you behave in the correct way!

On the plane you will be issued with immigration cards that must be filled in, both sides are identical and the information you provide must be identical. Immigration will keep one part of the form and return the other half to you which you must keep safely if you want to exit the country without delay. If you lose this piece of paper it could delay your exit from Russia and if you are stopped by the police and this is not in your passport there could be an on the spot fine.
Elaine said don't carry all your money in one place i.e. a wallet, if the police do stop you and ask for a fine they are likely to take ALL the money you have, so it is best to keep only a small amount in a wallet and keep the rest in inside jacket pockets, etc
There will be delays at the airport - it is the way Russians work, everything is very methodical. Tony and his team have asked that all booths be open at the airports to eleviate delays, but they can only ask and it is down to the Russian authorities if they follow this request but it is unlikely as they don't appear to deviate from the 'norm'! Sheremetevo Airport appears to have longer delays than Domodevodo Airport.

He said Tel Aviv had been a success despite the initial fears fans had, and this trip can be the same, take it for what it is - enjoy the culture, the scenery, the people and everything should be OK.
He then ran through a list of generalities which included that it is safe to travel on the Metro although it is difficult to comprehend the metro planners unless you have a knowledge of the Cyrillic alphabet.
Drinking in the streets is frowned upon, and there are plenty of tourist scams so be aware - these include not leaving your drink unattended as it may get spiked and you could wake up in a hotel room with all your possessions, documents and money missing - basically, when drinking, keep your wits about you! Never buy Vodka from street sellers, it is more likely that it contains other substances as well.
NO FLAG HANGING anywhere other than the stadium, the Flag of St. George is very similar to the flag of Georgia and will cause offence to Russians. Flags that are hung from public buildings and momunements such as the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier will involve arrest. Another no-no is putting cigarettes out on the ground/discarding chewing gum or rubbish in places like Red Square. England shirts don't appear to be as much a problem as flags. Tony said local fans are more likley to want to swaps shirts with the visiting fans.
The Russians see any more than a group of 3 people as an 'unlawful gathering' and large groups for this reason may draw unnecessary attention and possible arrest. There will be 6 English police officers working out in Russia allongside the Russian police and hope to dispel their concerns over large gatherings/groups of fans, but if the police do ask you to split up, it is best to do so without arguements.

There are two classes of arrest - administrative arrest and criminal arrest. Administrative arrest can be for minor offences and usually carry an on-the-spot fine, criminal arrest more likely for drunkiness, disorder, ticket touting etc - you will be arrested and it is more likely you won't be seen by authoroitites for 2 days at least, and with the possibility of a hefty sentence as well - Tony stated it is as well to remember 'the police have the upper hand!' Police are likely to stop you and 'fabricate' a crime, and if you are approached by police it is well not to argue with them, this only makes matters worse and could end up with you being arrested. Do also bear in mind that drinking in the streets as also not acceptable in Russia!

You must carry your passport with you at all times, copies are not acceptable if you are requested to produce ID. You are as well to carry a copy just in case, as this will help matters if you lose your passport. Your Passport must carry your visa and imigaration card, if your immigration card is missing you may well encounter a fine.

Hotels usually ask for your passport on arrival and this is the norm, but Tony states don't even consider leaving the hotel without it. If the hotel refuse to return your passport, insist that they photocopy it for their use and return it. (He said an hour is a reasonable enough time for them to take what details they need from your passport and after this time it is acceptible to ask for it back). It is also advisable to ask your hotel to arrange for a cab to be waiting for you at the airport or send their shuttle bus if they have one. There are many cars outside arrivals claiming to be cabs and are not. If you use these your are no doubt going to get scammed.

If you are not staying at a hotel and are using private accomodation you need to register your visa otherwise you face a fine and considerable inconvenience. You must register your visa with UVIR (department of visas and registration) within 72 hrs of arrival. Hotels deal with this for their guests. UVIR’s office in Moscow is at Ulitsa Pokrova 42. (Metro: Kurskaya, Krasnie Vorota) Tel: 095 207 0239.

Elaine stated that if your passport goes missing, its loss must be reported to the police, which will result in the issuing of a police statement, or'Spravka'. If your passport is reported 'lost' the Spravka will be issued immediately, whereas if you report it as stolen you will have to acquire a crime number, and will then have to wait at least 3 days before a Spravka is issued, so it is wise to say it has been 'lost'
It is also worth noting that the British Embassy is unable to issue emergency passports at the airport; if you discover yours is missing there, you will have to travel back into town to the British Embassy.

Taking pictures of military buildings are not acceptable as are taking pictures of military personnel, both could be arrestable offences.

ATMs and exchange bureaus are plentiful. It is worth noting not to change money on the street with strangers as this is a criminal offence, and you are also likely to get ripped off. Your best to take Roubles with you or US Dollars or Euros as these currencies are easily exchangable.

Younger Russians are likley to speak a little English, but older Russians will speak no English whatsoever. Tony said this was the most difficult of countries visited regarding language.


Ray covered the stadium and matchday arrangements for the game. He stated that he had been working with Tony and his team for over 5 years and reitterated what Tony had said, that the job had gotten a lot easier due to the behaviour of the England fans. He stated that it is important to bear in mind that we are visiting another country and we need to be adaptable to their customs and what is acceptable in Russia, and not what is the norm in England. Ray also said we can influence the behaviour of other fans.

He stated that our FA and other visitors had been very well received in Russia and that they (the Russians) were looking forward to England fans visiting. The Russians were also impressed with the organisation and atmosphere on their visit to Wembley.

The Luzhniki Stadium is rather old but still a grand stadium. It is the largest sports venue in Russia. Ray had some concerns over the state of some of the seating but these were promised to be repaired before the game. The facilities are basic, almost draconian, and he advises if you can, you visit public facilities in bars etc before arriving at the stadium!

It is vital that you get to the stadium at least 2 hours before the game. As already mentioned the Russians are thorough and methodical in their way of doing things. There are 4 cordons to pass through at the stadium. The first cordon is basically to see if you are drunk! If you show any signs of drunkeness you will be turned away. The second cordon is the ticket check. The third cordon is the turnstile - and to check you are in the correct sector of the stadium. The final cordon is the electronic scan search. This is similar to an airport electronic scanner - so you will need to remove change etc from pockets, remove belts.

There are no stewards at the stadium, it is stewarded by the police and army and there is expected to be approximately 1,500 officers at the stadium on the night of the game. They also prefer to use man-power as apposed to barriers at the stadium and this could prove intimidating to Englandfans but they guarantee that this is the 'norm' and nothing to worry about.
As the stadium is hosting the UEFA Champions' League final at the end of the season, there will be UEFA Officials present, and the Russians will be out to impress and are looking at this game being a 'test' run for the Final, so security, organisation etc will be paramount.

There will be a lock-in for Englandfans after the game and this has been indicated that it should be approximately 30-45 minutes although Ray said this could be longer. This may have a knock-on affect for those on day trips. He says the authorities have guaranteed this is to disperse their own fans so as to guarantee the safety of Englandfans on leaving the stadium. They have promised food/drink and toilet facilities will still be available to fans during this lock-in time.

In answer to a question from the floor, Ray said if there is a problem in the stadium you will no doubt have hostilities in the centre after the game. He said despite all the good work done, there will always be a small group of fans looking for trouble, and if it happens his advice is better to walk away from it and not get involved.

The nearest metro station to the stadium is Sportivneya which is on the red line, but the stadium is still a good 20 minute walk from the Metro.

Elaine provided print-outs of various information points including a copy of the Cyrillic alphabet.
In the next few days a list of questions that will help you if, say, you lose your passport, get arrested, need accommodation etc will be put on the FSF website. It is advisable to keep a printed copy with you and even if you can't speak the language, you can point to the question you need.
The FSF is also hoping to have a plan of the metro system with English translations up on the website early next week.

Tickets: due to the continuing postal strikes you can contact the FA and say which prefered method you want to get your tickets for the Russia game. The three options are * normal delivery by royal mail (bearing in mind that deliveries won't start until next Wednesday, and there will be a fair amount of backlogged mail to get through) * Pick tickets up at Wembley before Saturday's game * Pick tickets up in Russia. Please contact the FA as soon as possible to let them know your prefered selection. Ray did state that there will be NO duplicate tickets issued if you choose to have them delivered by Royal Mail and you have not received them before you depart for Russia.

A.O.B
Membership - The North West are the only regional group to have submitted ideas and suggestions to the FA for the new membership period. Debates were held as to whether people should be allowed to register interest for an away ticket and then take the ticket.
Ray has a say in the allocation of tickets and all cases of why tickets are not taken are looked at individually, so is not too kean on the idea that if you don't take a ticket after requesting one, you should miss out on the next away game allocation.
He said the job is to make sure that the FA are allocating tickets to genuine fans that want to attend games and not people who have just specifically joined to get tickets for tournaments, and by applying for away tickets and not attending. This is why the Proof of Travel regulations have become tighter, and the spot checks at stadiums and personal collections have been put in place.
He said it doesn't matter to UEFA or FIFA whether we have the most number of travelling fans, we are treated the same as all other competing teams in competitions and will receive the same allocation as others have. No matter what is put in place, they are never going to please all of the people all of the time.
It was suggested that the 3 day priority sale to members be extended to four i.e. Thu to Sun as many members only have internet access at work and are unable to access the site on Sat/Sun.
Quite a number liked the idea of a season ticket while others suggested perhaps a monthly standing order or similiar to pay for season tickets if they become available.

The NW Website - Anne-Marie said the website was a cost which the group could no longer afford, so the decision was made not to re-new the contract. We had several false offers of help to do another, none of which materialised. We hope this blog will continue the same informative format as the website did, and at least this is FREE!

Badges - Pete still has a few of the special Israel badges available that were issued for the Israel game last month at Wembley. They are free, let Pete know if you want one.

Meeting closed 9:40
Minutes by Anne-Marie Mockridge